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	<title>Comments on: #iitdeath: The day that was</title>
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	<link>http://artagnon.com/2009/03/iitdeath-the-day-that-was/</link>
	<description>Ramkumar Ramachandra &#124; Personal blog on computer science, technology, economics, and other random stuff</description>
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		<title>By: Liberal arts in Indian varsities &#187; Needlessly Messianic</title>
		<link>http://artagnon.com/2009/03/iitdeath-the-day-that-was/comment-page-2/#comment-78</link>
		<dc:creator>Liberal arts in Indian varsities &#187; Needlessly Messianic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 18:14:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artagnon.com/?p=172#comment-78</guid>
		<description>[...] funding. IIT Kharagpur is mulling setting up a super-specialty hospital, which probably because a student died there this year because he did not get medical attention on time. Anyway, whatever be the reason, I do think that theoretically it&#8217;s a great idea to introduce [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] funding. IIT Kharagpur is mulling setting up a super-specialty hospital, which probably because a student died there this year because he did not get medical attention on time. Anyway, whatever be the reason, I do think that theoretically it&#8217;s a great idea to introduce [...]</p>
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		<title>By: BlogAdda's Tangy Tuesday Picks - Mar. 24, '09 &#124; BlogAdda Blog</title>
		<link>http://artagnon.com/2009/03/iitdeath-the-day-that-was/comment-page-1/#comment-77</link>
		<dc:creator>BlogAdda's Tangy Tuesday Picks - Mar. 24, '09 &#124; BlogAdda Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 09:13:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artagnon.com/?p=172#comment-77</guid>
		<description>[...] : Ram Kumar What : #iitdeath: The Day it was. Tangy : Our Second Tangy pick for this week is by Ram Kumar from IIT Kharagpur. This post is unique [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] : Ram Kumar What : #iitdeath: The Day it was. Tangy : Our Second Tangy pick for this week is by Ram Kumar from IIT Kharagpur. This post is unique [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dr Pushkar</title>
		<link>http://artagnon.com/2009/03/iitdeath-the-day-that-was/comment-page-1/#comment-74</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr Pushkar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 07:32:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artagnon.com/?p=172#comment-74</guid>
		<description>Ok. All said. This debate shall continue for ages. Stop debating the mob reaction &amp; get practical.

Assume whatever has happened was in the greater interest of IIT Kharagpur. Now that administration understands the gravity of situation, make use of this opportunity to turn this moment into a watershed event in the history of B C Roy Hospital &amp; IIT Kharagpur.

Use those sharp brains to analyse the inadequacies &amp; devise a good long term strategy to prevent any such occurences in the future. Let admin concentrate on finding the culprit &amp; you focus your energies on improving things.

As for healthcare issues, entire indian health care is plagued with two major problems :-
1)Lack of Infrastructure
2)Lack of accountability

You cannot just deny the facts. No matter how good &amp; developed the place is, health care is seriously lacking infrastructure &amp; just cannot cope with such rapidly increasing demand. Situation is pathetic. Majority (not all) of these negligence issues have cropped up due to the infrastructure woes. Doctors are afraid to treat the patients because of problems like non-availability of materials, inadeqaute staff etc. They fear facing the people&#039;s anger. Common man naturally gets angry when basic services are denied but he doesn&#039;t understand that hospital just doesn&#039;t have the resources.

Another problem is accountability. Shirking responsibility is a common occurence. It starts right at the top level &amp; descends down. In fact its a tragedy that junior doctors  even after their extraordinary effort are criticised the most. Hospital at Sion, Mumbai is a perfect example where junior residents in departments like surgery work non-stop for days together (imagine a continous 72 hr shift in a physically &amp; mentally exhausting job that deals with hypersensitive subject like alive human body). Still time &amp; again they have to deal with the people&#039;s rage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok. All said. This debate shall continue for ages. Stop debating the mob reaction &amp; get practical.</p>
<p>Assume whatever has happened was in the greater interest of IIT Kharagpur. Now that administration understands the gravity of situation, make use of this opportunity to turn this moment into a watershed event in the history of B C Roy Hospital &amp; IIT Kharagpur.</p>
<p>Use those sharp brains to analyse the inadequacies &amp; devise a good long term strategy to prevent any such occurences in the future. Let admin concentrate on finding the culprit &amp; you focus your energies on improving things.</p>
<p>As for healthcare issues, entire indian health care is plagued with two major problems :-<br />
1)Lack of Infrastructure<br />
2)Lack of accountability</p>
<p>You cannot just deny the facts. No matter how good &amp; developed the place is, health care is seriously lacking infrastructure &amp; just cannot cope with such rapidly increasing demand. Situation is pathetic. Majority (not all) of these negligence issues have cropped up due to the infrastructure woes. Doctors are afraid to treat the patients because of problems like non-availability of materials, inadeqaute staff etc. They fear facing the people&#8217;s anger. Common man naturally gets angry when basic services are denied but he doesn&#8217;t understand that hospital just doesn&#8217;t have the resources.</p>
<p>Another problem is accountability. Shirking responsibility is a common occurence. It starts right at the top level &amp; descends down. In fact its a tragedy that junior doctors  even after their extraordinary effort are criticised the most. Hospital at Sion, Mumbai is a perfect example where junior residents in departments like surgery work non-stop for days together (imagine a continous 72 hr shift in a physically &amp; mentally exhausting job that deals with hypersensitive subject like alive human body). Still time &amp; again they have to deal with the people&#8217;s rage.</p>
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		<title>By: artagnon</title>
		<link>http://artagnon.com/2009/03/iitdeath-the-day-that-was/comment-page-1/#comment-76</link>
		<dc:creator>artagnon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 05:58:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artagnon.com/?p=172#comment-76</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-179&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@varun&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-180&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@little ram&lt;/a&gt;: I&#039;m sorry that your comments have been heavily censored. This is a public blog; please refrain from making things personal. Stop questioning each others&#039; judgements/ characters/ actions and discuss larger issue at hand here. I can give you each others&#039; email ids or contact numbers, if you so wish, so you can take the discussion elsewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-179" rel="nofollow">@varun</a> and <a href="#comment-180" rel="nofollow">@little ram</a>: I&#8217;m sorry that your comments have been heavily censored. This is a public blog; please refrain from making things personal. Stop questioning each others&#8217; judgements/ characters/ actions and discuss larger issue at hand here. I can give you each others&#8217; email ids or contact numbers, if you so wish, so you can take the discussion elsewhere.</p>
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		<title>By: little ram</title>
		<link>http://artagnon.com/2009/03/iitdeath-the-day-that-was/comment-page-1/#comment-75</link>
		<dc:creator>little ram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 04:52:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artagnon.com/?p=172#comment-75</guid>
		<description>@ Varun,

[CENSORED]

I am not at IIT-KGP; I never went to any IIT. I graduated more than 30 years ago from another college. I have similar shared experiences and maybe more having lived longer. So just for the record, I could not have done much about what happened.  I feel for it; [CENSORED]

Violence is not an option; it is not a solution-ever.  When you kill a terrorist, you do it to PREVENT large-scale violence.  You do this to control violence, not abet it.  If we agree that sometimes violence is justified, maybe we are guilty of providing the terrorist the perfect justification for their violence.

Still, the terrorist has good in him and it is sad that we have not been able to awaken it.  Ravana represented greed, anger and pride that is in all of us.  It is the intellect represented by the Lord that vanquishes this evil of anger, greed and pride in us.  It is not for nothing that Yudhishtira when asked what is the greatest enemy of man, replied it is &quot;anger&#039;.

My recommended course of action is certainly not that students should go to class as if nothing had transpired.  They are certainly entitled to protest the poor medical facilities at BC Roy hospital.  Having been to IIT-KGP, I can say that the state of the administration is worrying.  I certainly know from personal experience that the IIT-M admin. is far better organized.  I would certainly like to see the students taking action and not sitting around passively.  However, the violence that took place is not my recommended course of action.  There are any number of forms of protest and I must disagree with you that the Gandhian era is over.  There is no &#039;era&#039; for truth, no &#039;era&#039; for morality and no &#039;era&#039; for treating people with dignity.

I have no experience of IIT students to have any expectations of them, but I imagine some of you are way above the average in intellect.  It is even stupid of me to pretend that I can offer a better solution than one that you can come up with given your obvious talent- provided you allow your anger to subside and evolve a strategy that will prevent such tragic incidents in future.  Making sure we take specific corrective action to improve the facilities so this never happens again, to anyone- is the best tribute we can pay to Rohit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Varun,</p>
<p>[CENSORED]</p>
<p>I am not at IIT-KGP; I never went to any IIT. I graduated more than 30 years ago from another college. I have similar shared experiences and maybe more having lived longer. So just for the record, I could not have done much about what happened.  I feel for it; [CENSORED]</p>
<p>Violence is not an option; it is not a solution-ever.  When you kill a terrorist, you do it to PREVENT large-scale violence.  You do this to control violence, not abet it.  If we agree that sometimes violence is justified, maybe we are guilty of providing the terrorist the perfect justification for their violence.</p>
<p>Still, the terrorist has good in him and it is sad that we have not been able to awaken it.  Ravana represented greed, anger and pride that is in all of us.  It is the intellect represented by the Lord that vanquishes this evil of anger, greed and pride in us.  It is not for nothing that Yudhishtira when asked what is the greatest enemy of man, replied it is &#8220;anger&#8217;.</p>
<p>My recommended course of action is certainly not that students should go to class as if nothing had transpired.  They are certainly entitled to protest the poor medical facilities at BC Roy hospital.  Having been to IIT-KGP, I can say that the state of the administration is worrying.  I certainly know from personal experience that the IIT-M admin. is far better organized.  I would certainly like to see the students taking action and not sitting around passively.  However, the violence that took place is not my recommended course of action.  There are any number of forms of protest and I must disagree with you that the Gandhian era is over.  There is no &#8216;era&#8217; for truth, no &#8216;era&#8217; for morality and no &#8216;era&#8217; for treating people with dignity.</p>
<p>I have no experience of IIT students to have any expectations of them, but I imagine some of you are way above the average in intellect.  It is even stupid of me to pretend that I can offer a better solution than one that you can come up with given your obvious talent- provided you allow your anger to subside and evolve a strategy that will prevent such tragic incidents in future.  Making sure we take specific corrective action to improve the facilities so this never happens again, to anyone- is the best tribute we can pay to Rohit.</p>
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		<title>By: varun</title>
		<link>http://artagnon.com/2009/03/iitdeath-the-day-that-was/comment-page-1/#comment-73</link>
		<dc:creator>varun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 01:04:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artagnon.com/?p=172#comment-73</guid>
		<description>@Ram &amp; @Little ram...

@Ram - [CENSORED] You don&#039;t expect such things from IIT students because you have never really seen them doing so...Why don&#039;t you ponder over the extraordinary conditions that might have prevailed leading to the extreme behavior of otherwise naive students ? The one thing students look for is their teachers and guides to be honorable as well as inspiring. Prof Damodar Acharya is none, and mind you, the director did deserve this. I too didn&#039;t know Rohit but that doesn&#039;t mean in any manner that i should not feel distressed or enraged. It could have been me or my friend as well and if it indeed had been the case, i could have done much worse to the person who is hugely responsible for the incident. I won&#039;t justify the things students did but yes it was an extraordinary situation and the administration could only have heard by a violent protest. Many peaceful protests have earlier been done but all in vain. Numerous complaints been made but nothing done!!! The DOSA and D.D. were in fact laughing at times...Do you really think such people deserve your respect ? May be yours but not mine and yes Rohit&#039;s soul would definitely have wanted a stern action against these guys!!!

@Little ram -
Courage is needed not in being sober, but to bring a change . You will now argue that change can be brought by remaining peaceful, by going to classes everyday, doing silent protests at times or maybe writing complaints to the same administration we loathe so much!!! Students have already tried all such things a million times and sadly, only the death of an innocent could trigger the chain reaction which finally made the students realize their rights and power!!! If you are so sure of being sober, why could not you and others like you change the scenario before ? Maybe you were too busy writing into some other blogs about how cruel this world is and how strong you have to be to maintain your dignity...This ain&#039;t any Gandhian era where if someone slaps you, you show him your other cheek to be slapped again... I&#039;m not in favour of violent protests but yes it should be an option as well for the extreme cases like this where the big bosses consider students fools who could be succumbed to pressure of DC or other punishments just because they speak truth or they demand for better!!!
yes it is true that everyone has something good in him, but just because Ravana was a super brain do you think Ram should not have killed him ? Or if that&#039;s a bad example then consider the case of terrorists , should they not be killed just because they are found giving chocolates to there beloved daughters/sons ? or maybe we should sit together and mull over the goodness in the world and smile at each other ? [CENSORED]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Ram &amp; @Little ram&#8230;</p>
<p>@Ram &#8211; [CENSORED] You don&#8217;t expect such things from IIT students because you have never really seen them doing so&#8230;Why don&#8217;t you ponder over the extraordinary conditions that might have prevailed leading to the extreme behavior of otherwise naive students ? The one thing students look for is their teachers and guides to be honorable as well as inspiring. Prof Damodar Acharya is none, and mind you, the director did deserve this. I too didn&#8217;t know Rohit but that doesn&#8217;t mean in any manner that i should not feel distressed or enraged. It could have been me or my friend as well and if it indeed had been the case, i could have done much worse to the person who is hugely responsible for the incident. I won&#8217;t justify the things students did but yes it was an extraordinary situation and the administration could only have heard by a violent protest. Many peaceful protests have earlier been done but all in vain. Numerous complaints been made but nothing done!!! The DOSA and D.D. were in fact laughing at times&#8230;Do you really think such people deserve your respect ? May be yours but not mine and yes Rohit&#8217;s soul would definitely have wanted a stern action against these guys!!!</p>
<p>@Little ram -<br />
Courage is needed not in being sober, but to bring a change . You will now argue that change can be brought by remaining peaceful, by going to classes everyday, doing silent protests at times or maybe writing complaints to the same administration we loathe so much!!! Students have already tried all such things a million times and sadly, only the death of an innocent could trigger the chain reaction which finally made the students realize their rights and power!!! If you are so sure of being sober, why could not you and others like you change the scenario before ? Maybe you were too busy writing into some other blogs about how cruel this world is and how strong you have to be to maintain your dignity&#8230;This ain&#8217;t any Gandhian era where if someone slaps you, you show him your other cheek to be slapped again&#8230; I&#8217;m not in favour of violent protests but yes it should be an option as well for the extreme cases like this where the big bosses consider students fools who could be succumbed to pressure of DC or other punishments just because they speak truth or they demand for better!!!<br />
yes it is true that everyone has something good in him, but just because Ravana was a super brain do you think Ram should not have killed him ? Or if that&#8217;s a bad example then consider the case of terrorists , should they not be killed just because they are found giving chocolates to there beloved daughters/sons ? or maybe we should sit together and mull over the goodness in the world and smile at each other ? [CENSORED]</p>
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		<title>By: Arpit Agarwal</title>
		<link>http://artagnon.com/2009/03/iitdeath-the-day-that-was/comment-page-1/#comment-72</link>
		<dc:creator>Arpit Agarwal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 15:59:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artagnon.com/?p=172#comment-72</guid>
		<description>@Artagnon: A very sensitive coverage of the entire issue. Mob mentality is a strict no-no anywhere, much less in IIT campus. In their emotions, students do get carried away. Good work to keep emotions contained on this blog!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Artagnon: A very sensitive coverage of the entire issue. Mob mentality is a strict no-no anywhere, much less in IIT campus. In their emotions, students do get carried away. Good work to keep emotions contained on this blog!</p>
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		<title>By: M-x mob-mode</title>
		<link>http://artagnon.com/2009/03/iitdeath-the-day-that-was/comment-page-1/#comment-40</link>
		<dc:creator>M-x mob-mode</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 13:02:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artagnon.com/?p=172#comment-40</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s get this straight for kharagpur&#039;s sake:

morning: B.C.Roy hospital makes a heinous and tragic mistake for the last time, and someone is lost. It&#039;s a crime, and not the doctor, medical attendants, or the staff, but the Director is to blame.

2PM: Okay, so the director promised improving healthcare, and we&#039;re kinda pissed at him anyways, so let&#039;s go directly to him.

2:30PM: Director is unsympathetic and unapologetic, now we&#039;re mad.

3PM: Tons of people turn up, we have strength in numbers, nobody knows what happened but we hate the director and we&#039;re not afraid to show it.

3:30PM: The IQ of a mob decreases exponentially with the number. Any top class engineer would be able to understand that, but what about a mob full of top class engineers.

4PM: The smartest and most logical thing for us to do right now is: Beat the shit out of everything, we&#039;ve been dishonored. Maaro! Maaro! Maaro!

4:30PM: Someone started screaming &quot;Resign! Resign!&quot;, hey! two syllable words are fun to scream! Let&#039;s all scream! for diro&#039;s resignation(and possibly ice cream).

5PM: Diro resigned! yay! Let&#039;s celebrate! Though it feels like something&#039;s wrong, almost like someone had tragically passed away and we forgot about it while caught up in the senseless mob, oh well.

6PM: The media&#039;s here! yay, let&#039;s go give interviews.

10PM: I feel like screaming senselessly some more, let&#039;s go to TOAT.

1AM: Hey, look here! some guy&#039;s posted a blog entry with pictures of us and a description that makes us look like an unruly mob, and gives the institute a bad name. Let&#039;s try to make him take it down.

Two&#039;s a couple, three&#039;s a crowd, two thousand&#039;s a frickin&#039; mob.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s get this straight for kharagpur&#8217;s sake:</p>
<p>morning: B.C.Roy hospital makes a heinous and tragic mistake for the last time, and someone is lost. It&#8217;s a crime, and not the doctor, medical attendants, or the staff, but the Director is to blame.</p>
<p>2PM: Okay, so the director promised improving healthcare, and we&#8217;re kinda pissed at him anyways, so let&#8217;s go directly to him.</p>
<p>2:30PM: Director is unsympathetic and unapologetic, now we&#8217;re mad.</p>
<p>3PM: Tons of people turn up, we have strength in numbers, nobody knows what happened but we hate the director and we&#8217;re not afraid to show it.</p>
<p>3:30PM: The IQ of a mob decreases exponentially with the number. Any top class engineer would be able to understand that, but what about a mob full of top class engineers.</p>
<p>4PM: The smartest and most logical thing for us to do right now is: Beat the shit out of everything, we&#8217;ve been dishonored. Maaro! Maaro! Maaro!</p>
<p>4:30PM: Someone started screaming &#8220;Resign! Resign!&#8221;, hey! two syllable words are fun to scream! Let&#8217;s all scream! for diro&#8217;s resignation(and possibly ice cream).</p>
<p>5PM: Diro resigned! yay! Let&#8217;s celebrate! Though it feels like something&#8217;s wrong, almost like someone had tragically passed away and we forgot about it while caught up in the senseless mob, oh well.</p>
<p>6PM: The media&#8217;s here! yay, let&#8217;s go give interviews.</p>
<p>10PM: I feel like screaming senselessly some more, let&#8217;s go to TOAT.</p>
<p>1AM: Hey, look here! some guy&#8217;s posted a blog entry with pictures of us and a description that makes us look like an unruly mob, and gives the institute a bad name. Let&#8217;s try to make him take it down.</p>
<p>Two&#8217;s a couple, three&#8217;s a crowd, two thousand&#8217;s a frickin&#8217; mob.</p>
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		<title>By: Subhendu</title>
		<link>http://artagnon.com/2009/03/iitdeath-the-day-that-was/comment-page-1/#comment-39</link>
		<dc:creator>Subhendu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 12:59:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artagnon.com/?p=172#comment-39</guid>
		<description>Gaurav Tomar is still in ICU and currently undergoing dialysis.
Rohit&#039;s parents have taken his body.

i will update as soon as i know from reliable sources.

I would urge everyone is not to throw this matter into media. They are spicing up the whole situation and trying to meet their ends. Anyone and everyone who is following this blog and schols av , Please refrain from media (no calls , no mails ).

I have personally thrown media out of my hall and insti.

@ram ; Do twitter ,about the media issue I raised.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gaurav Tomar is still in ICU and currently undergoing dialysis.<br />
Rohit&#8217;s parents have taken his body.</p>
<p>i will update as soon as i know from reliable sources.</p>
<p>I would urge everyone is not to throw this matter into media. They are spicing up the whole situation and trying to meet their ends. Anyone and everyone who is following this blog and schols av , Please refrain from media (no calls , no mails ).</p>
<p>I have personally thrown media out of my hall and insti.</p>
<p>@ram ; Do twitter ,about the media issue I raised.</p>
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		<title>By: artagnon</title>
		<link>http://artagnon.com/2009/03/iitdeath-the-day-that-was/comment-page-1/#comment-41</link>
		<dc:creator>artagnon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 12:50:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://artagnon.com/?p=172#comment-41</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-169&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Rishav&lt;/a&gt;
I don&#039;t think I deleted any of your articles (comments?). I&#039;m sorry if it did get deleted by mistake while I was deleting the huge number of irrational one-line comments: do repost.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-169" rel="nofollow">@Rishav</a><br />
I don&#8217;t think I deleted any of your articles (comments?). I&#8217;m sorry if it did get deleted by mistake while I was deleting the huge number of irrational one-line comments: do repost.</p>
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